CONTENTS OF THE CALIFORNIA DIVORCE COURSE (FULL EDITION)
- What are the property
laws in the State of California?
- Do we have to divide
our property 50/50?
- What about our debts?
- Am I responsible
for debts my spouse incurred before we were married?
- If my wife (husband)
gets the car, does she (he) have to pay for it?
- What if my spouse ran up
a lot of debts and I didn't?
- I helped my spouse
pay his/her child support from a previous marriage. Can
I get any of that back?
- My spouse got hacked off
and destroyed a bunch of my personal effects. Is there anything
I can do about it?
- My spouse threw me out of
the house and my stuff's still in there. Is there anything
I can do about it?
- My spouse took off with my
car. Is there anything I can do about that?
- What's "quasi.community
property?"
- We bought a house after we
got married. What do we do about that?
- My spouse says he/she wants half
of the profits from the sale of the house. Should I agree
to it?
- My spouse wants to live in the
house while we wait for it to sell. Is that a good idea?
- I owned the house before
we got married. Does my spouse have any right to it?
- My spouse owned the house
before we got married, but I've put a lot of money into it.
Do I have any rights there?
- Am I responsible for
my spouses' student loans?
- Can my spouse get
my military retirement benefits?
- Can my spouse get my civilian
retirement benefits?
A CLOSER LOOK AT PROPERTY ISSUES
Mingling
Community and Separate Property
Community
to Separate and Back Again - The Property Switcheroo
Joint
Tenancy Versus Tenancy in Common
Houses
- The BIG property Issue
California is a community
property state. This means that most property and retirement
benefits acquired after the marriage are owned equally by the
husband and wife. It doesn't matter who earned it, each
party owns one half of the money and property that's acquired
during the marriage.
There are
exceptions to the community property laws that are called 'separate
properties.' These are such things as:
- Your personal effects. These are items such as toiletries or clothing.
- If you earned money or bought and paid for property before you were married, that's your separate property and your spouse has no claim to them.
- Any retirement benefits you earned before you were married are your separate property.
- Anything that was given specifically to one party of the marriage, rather than both, is that partie's separate property. If, for instance, your father-in-law gave your wife a washing machine, and didn't intend it as a gift to you, that's your wife's separate property and you have no claim to it.
- Any inheritance that was specifically to one party or another is not community property.
-Property that you accumulated
after your date of separation is also considered separate property.
Everything else is considered
community property and has to be divided at the point that the
marriage is dissolved.
| "That's the reason that there's so much stress on the date of separation in California. Anything you get from the date you split up with your spouse is your separate property, so it can be extremely important to be able to establish that date. In some cases there's no sweat about that. One person moves out and rents her own place, the lease is pretty clear evidence of the date. In some cases, though, you may actually have people living together all through the divorce procedure, but sleeping in separate beds. The date of separation then becomes more a matter of when they felt that they ceased to be husband and wife, and that can be tricky to prove." - John S., Attorney at Law |
Not at all. Any agreed
property settlement will be approved by the Court, whether it's
50/50, 25/75, or 90 percent to one party and 10 percent to the
other. The important thing is that you both agree how the
property will be divided. If you can't reach an agreement,
the Court will divide it for you and it will try for as near a
50/50 split as possible. One of the things that's really important
to emphasize is to talk to each other. Sit down and hash it out,
try to get a good agreement going before you start the process.
If you can't agree, then you can end up in a contested case and
the only winners there are lawyers.
| "The Family Code specifically
states that it's in the best interest of the state for the property
to be divided equally. You don't have to, of course, but
you want to be really sure that the Judge understands that you've
both agreed that an unequal division is alright. The easiest
way to do that is with a marital settlement agreement.
It's like a contract you draw up - you both sign it and the Judge
knows that's there's no contest. The down side to it is
that you probably end up having to pay an extra filing fee, because
they consider the marital settlement agreement a response.
But, hell, if it saves you having to go to court, it might be
worth the extra hundred bucks." - Pete K. , Attorney at
Law |
Your debts have to be divided
at the point that your divorce is granted, just like your property.
And, again, if you agree on who's taking what debt, the judge
will go along with that. You need to remember, though, that
your creditors aren't a party to your divorce. Even if a
judge assigns a debt to one party, the creditors aren't bound
by that. If your name is on the contract, they go after
you, too.
| "Too often, people have a rather
naive view that the judge can protect them from their creditors
by assigning debts to the other party. While that may make
the other party vulnerable, it doesn't protect the person who
isn't assigned the debt. If, for instance, you set up a
joint bank account and you were both issued credit cards on that
account, you're both responsible for the amount that's owed.
The judge has no power to order the bank to go after only one
party." -Abraham M. - Attorney at Law |
While you remain married, your
community estate can still be liable for debts that your spouse
incurred before you got married. Once the divorce is granted,
the judge will assign debts incurred before the marriage to the
person who incurred them, and you will no longer be liable.
| "Your separate property is not
liable for your spouses' separate debts. They cannot, for instance,
go after a house that you owed before you were married. Additionally,
your separate earnings cannot be held liable for your spouses'
debt. In other words, if you deposit your paycheck into
a bank account in which your spouse cannot make deposits or withdrawals,
that's your separate earnings, and it can't be touched."
- Martha T. , Attorney at Law |
The Superior Court can't void contracts. If you agree that your spouse should have the car (furniture, house, computer, stereo system, etc.) and he or she doesn't pay for it, you'll have to honor the contract if you signed it. If your spouse wants the car, he or she should be able to demonstrate that they have the ability to pay for it. The best way to demonstrate that is to have it refinanced in their name alone. If they can't get it refinanced, then you shouldn't agree to it, unless you're willing to make the payments yourself.
| Of course, if it comes down to crunch time, and you're looking at a court fight, then you want to look carefully at the finances involved. If you're going to spend $5,000 fighting for a car that only has $3,000 owing on it, you're losing your perspective on things. It happens, but it's not good. I had a client once who paid me over a thousand bucks to fight for a Chihuahua dog. I told him, 'Look, take $20.00 bucks, go to the pound, and buy yourself a REAL dog.' He wouldn't listen, though. He and his wife were that far into their hatred for each other." -James T., Attorney at Law |
As long as you remain married,
you are liable for your spouse's debts under California law, even
debts that he/she incurred before you were married. Once
you separate, however, any debts that he/she incurs are separate
debts and will be assigned to him/her when the divorce is granted.
A notable exception to that, however, is any debts that your spouse
incurs for, "lifes' necessaries," during the separation.
In other words, if you toss your spouse out of the house and he/she
has to borrow money to pay for food and shelter, you can be held
liable for that debt, even though you've separated.
| "Another exception to that would be if you were able to demonstrate that your spouse had squandered the community estate for the purpose of depriving you of your share. Say your wife goes out and maxes out all of the credit cards, just to drain the estate. In that kind of a case, the judge can order an unequal division of the property to compensate you for your loss." - Don W., - Attorney at Law |
| "I had a case just like that a few months ago. The wife was actually earning considerably more money than the man, so she helped out with the child support. Just a matter of being a loving couple at the time. In the settlement, though, there was no doubt that the man had been earning adequate sums to pay his own child support and still live fairly well, so he had to pay her back." -James T., Attorney at Law |
This is one of those cases where all too often the answer is no. Until a Court rules one way or the other, everything you own is considered community property, meaning you both own it. If it's your own property, you've got a right to destroy it, if you want to. If you call the cops in this kind of a situation, they'll tell you that they aren't Judges and they can't arrest someone for destroying their own property.
You can,
of course, turn it into a contested divorce and ask that you be
reimbursed for the property damage. In most cases, you end
up paying the lawyers more than the property is worth. If
you're going to do that, take a long hard look at what the property's
worth and what kind of money your spouse has to work with.
If he or she doesn't have the money to pay for it, there's not
much the Judge can do about it.
The very
best thing you can do, if you think there's any chance
of your spouse going ballistic and breaking things up, is to get
your stuff out of there before you file for the divorce.
Remember, once you file for the divorce, you're placing yourself
and your property under the jurisdiction of the Court and you're
not supposed to remove it. There are restraining orders on the
initial pleadings in California, so you've got a bit of protection
on it. Remember, though, a restraining order's just a piece of
paper. People get killed because they relied on those pieces of
paper instead of their common sense.
| "Oh, yeah . . . you hang around family law long enough and you see some pretty severe cases. One of my clients was a soldier, and his wife went through the closet with a straight razor. Absolutely shredded all of his uniforms. In another case, the wife worked over the family car with a baseball bat. Totaled it. I'll never forget this one idiot I had for a client. I was trying to communicate the difference between community property and separate property. I said, 'Look, that car's your separate property. You can sell it, keep it, hell, you can burn it if you want to.' Goddamned if I didn't get a call from the fire chief the next morning asking if I 'd really told my client it was alright to burn his car. And that's just what he did. Went home and poured gas on it and burned it up. A lesson in watching your words." - Dan E.. Attorney at Law |
Well, many people do and just as
many regret it later. The rule of thumb is that, once the
divorce is filed, you're not supposed to remove anything but personal
property. The best step on this is to have a mutual friend,
pastor, or counselor help you make up a couple of lists as to
who gets what. Then you meet at a mutually convenient time,
with your friend or pastor there, and you split the property.
If your
spouse absolutely refuses to be reasonable, you can show up at
the door with a cop and he or she will allow you to remove your
personal property without being harassed. By personal property,
we mean gender-specific clothing, toilet articles, and things
like that. Normally, the police will NOT allow you to remove
computers, stereos, refrigerators, or furniture, unless both parties
agree to it.
If you
have possession of the children, the police will often allow you
to remove whatever you need to take care of the kids. Do
NOT take the kids with you, if you think there's any chance that
your soon-to-be-ex might grab them.
Of course,
there are people who sneak back into the apartment when
the spouse is away and cart off the property. You're not
supposed to do that once the divorce is filed and, if your case
becomes contested, the Judge isn't going to like it. Once
again, if you think there's any chance of this kind of
thing happening, the best thing to do is to quietly get your property
out of the house before you file for the divorce.
And don't take the other person's stuff. It just causes
problems down the road.
| "I strongly advise my clients
to stay out of that kind of a situation, unless they have several
credible witnesses present. Divorces can involve some extreme
emotions, and it's best to just stay away from your spouse if
there's any possibility of violence. The last thing you
want going into a divorce is a charge of spousal abuse.
If you don't have any witnesses there, it's just your word against
theirs." - Pete K., Attorney at Law |
There are a number of things you can do about it.
- If your spouse is still in town and you've got keys to the car, you can just go by at three in the morning and take it back. Don't go over and make a big scene, though, because you stand a very good chance of getting arrested and still not having your car. If you do get it back, get it out of town or get the locks changed before your spouse comes over and takes it back again. Don't remove it from the State of California, though, if you've already filed for the divorce.
- If your spouse is still in town and you don't have the keys, you can try talking to the dealer who sold it to you. If the dealer thinks he's going to lose the car that you haven't finished paying for, he may be willing to repossess it and then work a deal with you. Same deal about changing the locks or making the car inaccessible.
- If your spouse has actually left town and you have the keys, you can do the same as above. Be sure to get either the title or the contract to carry with you, so you don't get arrested for car theft on your way back home.
- If your spouse has left town and you can't get to the vehicle, about all that you can do is to put the vehicle in the petition for divorce and ask that it be awarded to you. Put the vehicle identification number in the final Judgment of Dissolution and then you can go get it after the divorce is granted.
| "Oh, sure, we all know there are restraining orders on the back of the Summons and you're not supposed to take any property out of state. Try arguing that with a cop in Boondoggle, Minnesota after your wife ran back to her parents' house with your car. - Antonio, B., Attorney at Law |
Sounds like some kind of a disease, doesn't it? Quasi-community property is actually property that you or your spouse acquired out of the state, but which would have been community property if it had been acquired here. Now, to a certain extent, it doesn't make any sense for a Superior court in California to be dealing with it. If you bought a house in Kansas, California doesn't have any jurisdiction over that property. We can't issue orders that are enforceable about property outside of the state.
Where it begins to make sense
though, is when the Judge has to split up the property. Then he's
going to be going for an equitable division. If you and your spouse
are fighting over who's going to get the house, and you just happen
to have a strip mall in Oregon, the Judge can take that into consideration
when he's making his decision. Even though it's NOT community
property, since it's not in a community property state, the Judge
can treat it as IF it's community property for the sake of fairness
in dividing the property that's in California.
| "The court can't force a sale of property in another state, but the judge can order you to provide your spouse with conveyances to the property. The judge has enforceable jurisdiction over you, as a part of the division of the estate." -James T., Attorney at Law. |
There are only three things you can do about that.
- One or the other of you is awarded the house. If that's the case, the other party will need to sign off on new deeds, or you'll need a Court order awarding the house to the party that gets it as a part of the divorce decree.
- You can sell the house. If you do, the profits (if any) are community property and have to be divided one way or another. If you and your spouse can agree on it, you can divide the profits anyway that you want to. If you can't agree, a Judge would probably try for as near a fifty/fifty split as possible.
- You can maintain joint ownership of the house. If that's the case, you should be really good friends, because you're basically entering into a business partnership with your ex.
By far and
away, the best solution is to just sell the property and split
any profits, if it's feasible to do so. Obviously, there
are times when the housing market is down and houses just don't
sell or you can't make enough to cover the note. You can't
afford to pay rent and a mortgage and you can't sell the house.
If that's the case, you need to ask for the house. Remember, if
your spouse is awarded the house and doesn't pay for it, you're
still liable.
| "There are some other moves
you can make with it, of course. If it looks like you're going
to get stuck with alimony, for instance, you might make a deal
that you pay the house payments as a part of the alimony, and
split the profits from a future sale. There are creative options
out there." Dan E., Attorney at Law |
Well, the first thing you should do is figure out how much the house is worth. Most of us owe much more on our houses that we've got in equity. Basically, then, the house becomes a community debt, instead of a community asset. The easiest way to resolve that problem is to ask a realtor or appraiser to give you an estimate on what the house is worth. If you owe more than you can get out of it, there's nothing to divide.
If there is equity in the house,
then your spouse can get half of the profits. Remember, if you
owned the house before the marriage, the equity accrued prior
to the marriage is your separate property. Any equity accrued
after the marriage is community property and can be divided.
| "An issue you might want to explore is a simple buy out of equity. Sometimes people are hurting for cash after a divorce and they might prefer immediate cash to waiting for a sale. Or, perhaps, agree to a limited time alimony payment, if you think they'll go for it. That's one of those places where you can sit down and do some serious horse trading if you're still talking to each other." -John S. ,Attorney at Law |
That depends on your spouse and your relationship.
If you have a good spouse and a friendly relationship, no problem.
You should be sure in your own mind, though, that your spouse
is as committed to selling the house as you are.
Now, you can have a situation
where one party continues to live in the house after the divorce
and both parties continue to own the house, with the agreement
that there will be a split of profits when the house sells. That
can work out, if you have a low equity house and you really don't
want to just break even or take a loss. One party gets to stay
there, and the other party has a continuing investment without
having to pay in to it. Under some circumstances, that works out
fine.
| "Well, obviously a realtor can't sell a house if he can't show it. I've seen cases where the person in the house chained a couple of dobermans out in the front yard, or they made sure that the house was good and filthy anytime the realtor was coming over. It can turn into a nightmare pretty fast." - Don W. ,Attorney at Law |
If you owned the house completely
before you got married, the answer is no, that's your separate
property. Unfortunately, what most of us mean by owning
a house is that we signed the papers before we got married.
Anything that was paid into the house after you got married is
community property and your spouse can ask for half of that principle
(not the interest.) In most cases, where there are only
a few months or years of marriage, it's not worth getting into
a fight over. If you've established substantial equity in
the house since you got married, though, your spouse can, and
probably will, ask for half of that equity. In that case,
you may end up having to sell the house even if you owned it prior
to the marriage.
| "Especially in California, of course, we can see dramatic increases in property values in a very short period of time. We saw that in Silicon Valley during the computer boom. People were paying huge amounts of money for shacks. Always a good idea to check your local real estate listings and visit with a realtor about what your house is actually worth." - Dan E., Attorney at Law |
| "Let me see if I can explain the difference to you. If you spend hundreds of hours painting a house, that's maintenance and you can't get anything for your time. If you spend hundreds of dollars on paint, that's improvements, and you can ask to be recompensed. You don't get money for taking care of your honey-do list." James T., Attorney at Law |
| "Student loans are usually just handed off to the person who got the education. But, there are some factors that the judge can consider when it comes to payment for education. Say you paid for most of your spouses' education and you want to be reimbursed for that. The judge is going to look at how much you paid, but also whether or not you profited from your spouses' education. They've got a ten year rule, there. If you paid for the education and it was more than ten years ago, the presumption is that the community estate profited from the investment in the spouses' education. If it's less than ten years, the presumption is that the community profit hasn't been that much." - Martha T., Attorney at Law. |
While community property laws say that anything that is accrued during the marriage is divisible, including military retirement, the Federal laws over-ride the State laws. Federal laws state that military retirement benefits can't be divided unless there are at least 10 years of marriage while the party is on active duty.
If
you have been on active duty for that period of time and you are
dividing military retirement benefits, the odds are very strong
that you need a lawyer to process your divorce. The formula
for dividing military retirement benefits is extremely complex
and not one which you should attempt to do for yourself.
In most cases, retirement benefits
are divisible as community property. If you've both earned retirement
benefits and you're each getting your own, no sweat. If, however,
one person has earned a substantial amount and it's being divided,
you're better off going with a lawyer. At the least, you're going
to need to consult an actuary and find out how much each party
gets. Most companies with retirement benefits will also have personnel
offices where you can get some help figuring out the actual amounts
and setting up the paperwork.
| "Then, you have to have a Qualified Domestic Relations order (QDRO) prepared, and they're an absolute bitch to prepare. They're so complicated that many divorce lawyers don't even prepare them; they subcontract them to lawyers who specialize in them. That's not to say that you can't do your own divorce if you need a QDRO, but you'll definitely have to hire a lawyer to take care of that part of it, unless the company you work for provides that service." - Pete K., Attorney at Law |
Community
property is generally anything that you acquired after the date
of your marriage, even retirement benefits. The idea is that when
two people become married, they become one unit, at least economically.
It doesn't matter if only one party is working, or if one
party makes much more money than the other. Everything that comes in, everything that's
purchased, is owned by both parties equally (with the exceptions
listed under separate property.)
When you file for a divorce, of course, the
property has to be dealt with. It can be divided, sold and the profits
divided, or you can go on owning it jointly.
Contrary to the scenes that you see in the
movies and read about in the tabloids, most people don't get into
huge legal fights over their property. In most cases, the two people divide the
property themselves and the judge approves of their agreed decision. And, when two people are splitting up,
there's usually a sort of a natural flow to that process.
Men tend to want their tools, computers, motorcycles, stereo
systems. Women tend to be more concerned
about appliances, furnishings, art, and jewelry, Most of the items
that they might both want aren't really worth hiring lawyers over
and so they work out compromises.
As long as the two parties agree on the property
split, the judge will go along with whatever they come up with. If you can't agree, then the judge
is bound by law to divide the estate as nearly equally as possible.
That means that he or she is going to assign both the property
and the debts in such a way that you both come out with about
the same net worth. Of course, that's
minus the large wads of cash you both left at your lawyers
offices.
1 - Anything that you owned prior to the date
of your marriage is your separate property.
That means that if you owned a car or a house free and
clear before you got married, it's totally your property and your
spouse doesn't have any claim on it. Of
course, anything that you paid into it after the marriage
and from community funds, is community property, and your spouse
can ask to be compensated for that.
2 - Anything that you acquired after the date
of separation is your separate property.
That's why lawyers make such a big deal about the date
of separation: its very important to be able to establish the
exact date that you split up in a contested case in order to prove
that it really is separate property.
3 - Anything that was given specifically
to one party, rather than to both of you, is separate property.
For instance, if your mother gave you her mother's wedding
ring so that you could pass it down to your daughter, that wouldn't
be community property. If your father
was worried about your driving around in a 72 Pinto and gave you
his old car, that wouldn't be community property, unless he intended
for you both to have it. Inheritances
specifically to one person fall under the same category.
4 - Personal injury awards are usually separate
property. If you get hit by an ice cream truck and you're awarded
$30,000 for injuries, that's your separate property.
In a contested case, though, a judge can order that up
to one-half of that money can be given to the other spouse, if
its required for a fair division of the estate.
Another reason to avoid contested cases.
5 - Some military benefits become separate
property. If you have a service related
disability, you can convert some of your retirement benefits into
VA disability benefits, and that becomes separate property.
Say what???
Well, here's the deal on that one:
a
So . . . suppose that you and your spouse live
in a modest little house and drive a modest little car. Meanwhile, your spouse has been investing
in strip malls in
It all sounds
so cut and dried when you read about it in a book:
this is my separate property over here and this is my community
property over there, and the two things are really easy to tell
apart.
Of course, nothing's ever that easy in real life.
When two people get married, they're not usually planning
for their divorce on their honeymoon. We have a tendency to mix our separate
property in with the community property and then it can be really
hard to get it back out again.
Suppose you've got a checking account with ten thousand bucks
in it when you get married. Of course,
you're married now, so you want some of those nifty checks that
have both of your names on them, and you run right out and order
them. Then you keep having your paycheck
direct deposited into that account over the next five years, only
that paycheck is community property now.
And you use the account to pay all of the monthly bills
and maybe you and your spouse think, "Hey, what's the point
in having to hassle with two checking accounts?" so your
spouse starts depositing into that account, too.
And then your wife runs off with the milkman or your husband falls
in love with his troll secretary. What happened to that ten thou that you
had in the bank when you got married? Well,
the technical term is that it was, "commingled," with
community funds. In laymans terms, that means that it's
been so thoroughly mixed in with community property that all of
the king's horsemen can't ever drag it out again.
In order to establish it as separate property, you've got to be
able to prove a clean trace of the property. That means that you can prove that it
was your separate property before you got married and that it's
never become separate property.
For instance, if you had it in that account when you got married,
and you never used that account for any other purpose and didn't
deposit any community funds in it, that's a nice, clear trace.
Or, you may have set up a pre-nuptial agreement that says,
"This is my separate property, keep your cotton picking hands
off of it." Or you might have
a marital agreement after you were married that says the
same thing.
For most of us, though, the odds are that we've mixed up a fair
amount of our community and separate property by the time we get
divorced. We just have to bite the
bullet and treat it as community assets.
Why would you want to do that? Well,
suppose you get some inside information that the next hot fad
is going to be chocolate covered bagels, and you want to invest
in a bakery, only you don't have the money.
You're still convinced that you're going to make a fortune off
of them, though, so you've got to figure out a way to convince
her to give you the cash. So, you've
got that piece of land you bought near Tahoe before you got married,
and you agree to turn it over to her, in exchange for the bagel
bucks that you need. Since your'e
married, though, it would remain community property if you just
changed the deed. BUT, if you sign an agreement saying that
it's her separate property, shes got it free and clear in case
of a divorce. So here you've transformed your separate property
into her separate property.
You can also agree to turn separate property into community property,
like turning the land you owned in Tahoe into a community asset,
where you'd still have a half share. Or, you can turn a community asset into
a separate asset. If you'd bought
the land in Tahoe after you got married, for instance,
you can agree that it becomes your wife's separate property and
you lose all of your community interest in it.
Now, when you take all of that into a divorce scenario, it starts
to make a little more sense. Many
people who are going into a divorce don't want to get into a fight,
but they just don't trust the other person.
Sometimes that's based on a sense of personal betrayal
because their spouse filed for a divorce. Other times, its because their relatives
and friends are sticking their big noses into it, and telling
them they'll get screwed over if they dont fight the divorce.
("You know what your Uncle Fred did to me, may he
rot in hell. Don't let this worthless man do it to
you, honey . . .")
So, they want to see something in writing.
They want it all spelled out in black and white, exactly
what they're going to get out of the divorce settlement.
Enter the Marital Settlement Agreement, or MSA.
The MSA is a contract between the two parties in the divorce.
It says, "We agree that this is the way that we want
to settle our property and our debts," and then it lists
who gets what. Both parties sign it
and the judge almost always goes along with it.
And, you can use the MSA to transform property, so you
can bargain away to your hearts content.
Take a couple that's been married for 15 years:
the husband worked for the same company for all of those
years and has always planned an early retirement, so that he can
go fishing every morning. In a divorce,
his wife would be entitled to one -half of the retirement benefits
he's earned during the course of their marriage, so there goes
that early retirement. But wait .
. . he's got a piece of property in Tahoe, too, and it was all
paid off before the marriage took place and his wife loves to
ski. So, he agrees in the MSA that
the property in Tahoe is his wife's separate property and she
agrees that he gets all of his retirement benefits.
And that's another example of the importance of the agreement
in a divorce. Left up to a judge,
the retirement would have been divided, the land in Tahoe would
have been awarded to the husband who couldn't use it because he
couldn't retire early, and no would have gotten what they wanted.
This is another
one of those property concepts that may or may not be important
to you in a divorce setting. Say that you and your spouse purchased
40 acres in the mountains, because you always dreamed of owning
an alpaca farm when you retired. The
deed is recorded as husband and wife jointly holding that property.
Then a divorce rolls along. What
are the consequences of that joint tenancy?
First of all, creditors from either spouse can come after the
property. In other words, even if it was just your spouse who
ran up all of the debts, they can still try to attach your interest
in the property. Second, in joint
tenancy, there is an automatic right of survivorship.
If you file for a divorce and then you get run over by
an ice cream truck, that property is still going straight to your
spouse, no matter what you may have put in a post-separation will.
And, that really bothers some people. We
do have a pretty extended waiting period before the divorce can
be granted in
The solution that some people use is to change the manner in which
the property is held.
Of course, before you run out and hire a real estate lawyer to
change the holding, you may want to think about it.
If you think its going to be a fairly friendly divorce
and youre both in good health, why bother?
In the normal
divorce, few property issues will be as important as the family
house. Especially in California, where
we've seen such dramatic rises in property values, even houses
that you've owned for a relatively short period of time may have
a great deal of equity in them.
If you're approaching your divorce from the point of view of agreements,,
rather than fighting, you can do anything that you like with the
house. You can have it awarded to
either party, you can maintain joint ownership on it, or you can
sell it and divide the profits any way that you see fit.
If you can't agree on what to do with it, then the judge
will decide for you. And, again, state
law requires the judge to aim for as close to a fifty/fifty split
as possible. If you have a lot of equity in the house,
that can mean a simple order to sell and divide the profits equally. If you owe a great deal, that can mean
an equal division of any debts remaining after the sale.
There's even a provision in
Even in a friendly divorce, coming to terms on the actual value
of the house can sometimes be perplexing. If you're just selling the house, no sweat.
Sell it and divide the profits. If one of you is buying the other person
out, it gets a little more complicated.
The simplistic approach would be to say, "Okay, we've paid
this many dollars into the principle since we bought the house,
so we'll divide that number by two and that's what I'll give you
for your share of the house." Of
course, that's not factoring in the
One approach to that dilemma is to do an informal appraisal yourselves.
Start looking at houses that are selling in your neighborhood
that are similar to yours. Scan through
the classifieds and look for similar houses with similar square
feet. Even ask a realtor to drop by
and give you an estimate on what they think the house is worth.
(Be careful on that one, though. Some
realtors will really inflate the value of the house in the hope
that you'll sign on with them. Others
drastically under value, so that they can move it quickly and
get the commission,)
On a more formal level, you can hire a professional appraiser
to do all of the work for you. Since
they're being paid a simple fee, rather than a commission, they
tend to be a little more honest. And,
you might think of having a real estate inspector come and inspect
the house.
There is also a common situation where one person owned the house
before the marriage, but was still making payments on it.
After the marriage, community funds were used to pay the
mortgage. While the house remains
the separate property of the person who owned it to begin with,
you can ask to be reimbursed for half of whatever was community
funds expended on it.
In another scenario, you may have even used your separate property
to pay for your spouse's house which was her/his separate property.
Say your wife or husband owned a house before you got married.
He or she loses their job and you take over the payments
on the house until they get back on their feet.
Can you get that money back? Well,
youv'e got a right to ask for whatever of your separate funds
you paid into the principle or for improvements on the house.
You cant get back money that paid the interest, the taxes,
or the maintenance. But, when you're
figuring the improvements, you can't count your own personal labor
that went into the work.
Debts are
usually considered along with the property.
Your property, minus your debts, is your net worth.
Dealing with the one without considering the other is nonsensical.
And not giving careful consideration to the debts can have
very long term and unpleasant consequences.
Say George has been married to Lucille for 20 years and
they have a house, cars, and 3.5 children.
George develops that peculiar mental disease of men in
their mid-forties and falls madly in love with his 18 year old
secretary. After a few trips with
her to the Notell Motel, he tells his wife that he wants a divorce. She's devastated, the kids are in shock,
the relatives and friends won't speak to George except to hiss
at him.
George feels massively guilty, so he agrees to give everything
to his wife, if she agrees to pay for it. The only problem is that Lucille hasn't
worked in 20 years and the house payment is $2,000 a month. She
fails to make the payments. So the mortgage company repossesses the
house, the furniture company and the car lots come after George,
he has to declare bankruptcy and his credit is shot to hell.
Meanwhile, his secretary figures he's a real loser and
she runs off to
Now, the reason that all of that happened to George is that he
didn't understand two very important concepts:
contracts and jurisdiction. When
George filed for the divorce and Lucille filed a response, the
judge had jurisdiction over George, Lucille, their kids, and their
property. The judge did not
have jurisdiction over the mortgage company, the car companies,
or the furniture company. The judge
could ORDER George to give Lucille the house.
The judge couldn't order the mortgage company to take George's
name off of the note. So, when Lucille
didn't make the payments, George was still responsible.
In other words, the judge in a divorce can't cancel out contractual
obligations. If you and your spouse
have credit cards with both names on the applications, the credit
companies can come after either or both of you to pay those debts,
no matter what the judge orders. If
you even co-signed on the application for your spouse's credit
card, the credit company can take that as a reasonable expectation
that you were willing to cover those debts.
So, walking into a divorce situation, you need to try to be a
bit of a psychic and predict the future. If your spouse says he or she is going
to pay a debt as a part of the divorce settlement, with he or
she really do it? Is he or she a responsible person who
cares about their credit rating and pays bills promptly?
Will he or she be able to find good enough employment after
the divorce to cover all of those bills?
Will you be able to cover the bills if he or she doesn't?
Sometimes you can get a little creative with those situations.
Heres an example: Mike and
Zinnia were married for over 18 years and had two kids.
Zinnia had a little problem with credit cards:
she never met one that she didn't love.
While Mike was working 60 hour weeks, Zinnia was out there
charging up the cards. Mike finally
left her, when she refused to get counseling for her spending
problem.
Now, Mike was looking at the divorce settlement and he had NO
reason to believe that Zinnia would pay off any of the debts,
even if she agreed to. All of her
past behavior pointed toward someone who really didn't care about
being financially responsible. So,
he worked out a deal with her. As
part of the divorce settlement he agreed to take on all of the
debts, knowing that he'd have to eventually, anyway.
In exchange, she agreed to lower alimony payments and to
let him live in the house for as long as he wanted, with the community
equity to be split when it was sold.
That's a good example of using your head and turning a deficit
to your advantage. Here's another
example that lawyers see quite frequently: the woman is getting
custody of the kids and wants the car to be able to take them
to daycare and school. The man's not
sure at all that she's going to be able to make the payments on
the car, and he doesn't want to get stuck with that, in addition
to his child support.
An amazing number of people in that situation will hire lawyers
and spend a fortune fighting over who's going to get the Honda.
A few will stand back and look at it and understand the
other person's position. Of course,
the woman needs a car to take care of the kids, but she also understands
her husband's concerns about being over-extended financially.
Of course, the man wants to protect his credit in
the divorce, but he also understands that his wife needs a car
to take care of the kids, and he wants his kids to be in a safe
vehicle. Creative solution? Trade the car in on two good used cars,
with notes that you can afford post-divorce.
Oddly, in a state that places so much emphasis on community versus
separate property, creditors can even go after your community
property for debts that were incurred by your spouse before
you were married. However,
Many people
don't think of retirement benefits when they're contemplating
a divorce because they don't feel like it's something you can
get your hands on. It's hard to think
of something you won't get for many years as something you own.
Nonetheless, retirement benefits can be a big part of a
divorce settlement. Any retirement benefits that you earn
during your marriage are considered community property, not including
social security benefits or disability.
Here's how that works: if you were
married for 20 years, worked the same job for those 20 years,
and then went out and got a divorce, your spouse would be entitled
to one half of your retirement benefits.
If you were married 15 of those 20 years, your spouse would
be entitled to 15/20s, or three quarters of one half of your retirement,
and so on.
One major exception to the community property 50/50 ownership
rule is the military. Although military
retirement benefits are theoretically community property, federal
law says that they can only be divided if the parties have been
married for more than 10 years. And
you see cases in military communities where wives are holding
on to a rotten marriage for dear life, because they want to make
it past that 10 year mark before they file for divorce.
Division of retirement benefits is one of those areas where many
people play, "Lets Make a Deal." The person whose employment earned the
benefits may offer to pay off all of the bills, or perhaps do
an immediate cash pay off to get the other party to give up their
rights to it.
Such arrangements should be approached with caution.
In one military family, the husband persuaded the wife
to give up all claims to his retirement. In exchange, he agreed to deed over the
house to her and continue paying the mortgage.
Shortly after the divorce, he moved to
As a rule of thumb, the longer you've been married, the less likely
it is that you should bargain away your share of the retirement
benefits. It may be tempting, as you
go through the divorce. Many people
are hurting badly for extra cash after a marriage fails, but it's
usually best to hang on to those benefits. You can actually begin
drawing on those benefits as soon as the other party is eligible
to retire. In other words, if they
could retire at 20 years, but choose to work for 30 years,
you can start drawing your benefits at the 20 year mark.
Of course, anything they earn after you start drawing
your benefits isnt community property, so you don't draw on the
increases they get by working longer.